Rep Relationships: Outsourced Post #3

After receiving this question about rep/writer relationships:

 Is it true that managers and agents will only do something for you twice---after you give them the first spec they like and if that doesn't sell then if you are generating income for them----otherwise they won't do anything for you because they have 35 plus other clients (managers) or (70-80 for agents)... Would a new writer get lost in the shuffle at a big management company like Anonymous Content or Benderspink if they aren't hot right away...or is it better to go with a medium manager who's a hot spec seller.... How do you figure out which managers will take time to develop material and build a new client's career from ones that are strictly going for the one off quick deal?

I asked several of my writer buddies to help out by giving their perspective, since every relationship is different and I haven't had that many. You can find Part One HERE and Part Two HERE 

Writer #5 is just getting started, but after a high profile introduction his script got passed all over town:

I have both agents and managers. Fortunately, I love 'em. They're exactly the people I thought they were. They work their asses off, and they fight for me. However, the road to figuring out the question of representation was full of hiccups. It was very challenging. My situation was fairly bizarre.

I was fortunate enough to have a few options, which was wonderful and surreal and humbling. It's also taxing and stressful and terrifying. As someone who wasn't based in LA, I wasn't able to meet the majority of the reps in person. This only complicates matters. It's hard to really read someone based off a Skype session, a phone conversation, etc. I encountered a wealth of intelligent, incredibly talented, and admirable people. This only made things more difficult. A large part of the equation is figuring out who genuinely believes in you. Will this agent/manager work hard for you, not just in five minutes, but in five years? Because ideally, that's what these partnerships will be: long term ones.

A manager is your creative partner. Let me correct that - a good manager is your creative partner. As the industry has shifted, some agents have found footing in the managerial world. These people are plenty talented, but in some cases, their strong suit is not in the development of material. For me, that's the purpose of a manager. A manager is the person you're in the trenches with through every step of the creative process. They are your sounding board. They are someone with whom you're incredibly vulnerable, as you share your most embryonic ideas and early drafts.

For those lucky enough to be in a situation in which you're forced to choose between agencies or managerial firms of various sizes -- the behemoths and the smaller, boutique shops -- like everything in our business, there is no concrete rule to guide you here. So much of this comes down to your gut. You must absolutely be mindful of your agent/manager's client list, the size of their company, and how you fit into the equation. Do you want someone who is hungry? Always. Unfortunately, the hungriest are also, most often, the youngest. However, if you believe that Giant Agent/Manager X from Big Company Y, with a client list full of established writers, adores your writing and truly believes in your potential, that person may be the right rep for you.

I'd be lying if I said I haven't heard the horror stories. A talented young writer signs with a big agent/manager off the strength of his/her script, and then finds themselves marginalized over the next year as their "heat" fades. The phone rings less. The inbox isn't as full. The rep senses that you won't cash a check in the very immediate future, and backs away. Hell, I once met a rep who said something astounding. When our conversation shifted to a discussion of a young writer, who had broken in with a massive spec sale just three months earlier, the reps words were: "well, what has [the writer] done since?" With the wrong reps, Hollywood can become a business of "what have you done for me lately?". If you don't immediately sell the next spec, or land the OWA you've been chasing, the attention you receive can dwindle. It's important to note that this can happen anywhere. This type of behavior isn't restricted to the largest agencies & firms.

With the right agent/manager, you'll find someone who isn't utterly inconsolable when your spec doesn't sell, or you lose out on that big studio gig. You'll find someone who understands that the next opportunity is right around the corner, because at the end of the day, talent does win out. (Or...at least that's what I tell myself so I can sleep at night.) You won't feel like you're in this alone, because you won't be. That person -- the sherpa that will guide you up this mountain -- may work for a behemoth of an agency/managerial firm. That person may also just as easily may work for a smaller boutique.

Make an informed decision. If you're unsure about a rep, try to find someone who has worked with them. Hollywood is an incredibly small town. Seek out a fellow writer, or an exec. Ask them about their experiences. Listen to everything, and dismiss nothing. Don't let one overly enthusiastic or aggressively negative opinion sway your decision. Another useful little trick: read their clients work, and see if it speaks to you. There's no one trick to the trade. Do your research, and then follow your instincts. After all, they've carried you this far.

 Writer #6 is a TV and film writer who's had a lot of success and steady work over the years:

ME: Do you have a manager or agent or both?

Both.  These days, much more common.  One quick advantage of having both - when you're trying to get an actor or director on your script, an agent will be offering their own clients.  A manager works with all the agencies, so has more flexibility in trying to attach talent.

ME: What is that relationship like?

I think the underlying question here is "what should my relationship with my rep be," and people are trying to judge based on what pros do.  The truth is, I've been through three managers and probably ten different agents (I've been at the same agency for a long time, but agents move/teams change), and every relationship is different.  Some want to get involved and read drafts and give notes, some want to "sell it, don't smell it."  Some are behind you and keep fighting when they believe in you, even during cold streaks - some are heat seeking missiles.

I feel a rep is better than no rep, by a long shot. If you're a new writer and you get an offer, unless the person is a fraud, go ahead and give it a shot.  You can always change reps if it's not working out.  If you have multiple offers of representation, just listen to their pitch, ask what you can expect, and choose.  If you're wrong, it's not forever.

And thus ends the outsourced part of my post. Next time, I'll give my own answer, since this question has become increasingly relevant to me of late.  Thanks to all the writers who so graciously participated in this posting series. I know your insight has been very helpful to many.

Rep Relationships: Outsourced Post #2

After receiving this question about rep/writer relationships:

 Is it true that managers and agents will only do something for you twice---after you give them the first spec they like and if that doesn't sell then if you are generating income for them----otherwise they won't do anything for you because they have 35 plus other clients (managers) or (70-80 for agents)... Would a new writer get lost in the shuffle at a big management company like Anonymous Content or Benderspink if they aren't hot right away...or is it better to go with a medium manager who's a hot spec seller.... How do you figure out which managers will take time to develop material and build a new client's career from ones that are strictly going for the one off quick deal?

I asked several of my writer buddies to help out by giving their perspective, since every relationship is different and I haven't had that many. You can find Part One HERE and Part Three HERE.

I was going to keep everyone anonymous, but these guys didn't care.

Brian Scully:

For me, it breaks down to the reps who care and the reps who don’t. The reps who want a paycheck and to help a client’s career grow because they believe in said client… and the reps who just want a paycheck.

The relationship is one of mutual belief in each other, which is what I responded to more than anything else when COUNTERPOINT first got attention and I started getting emails and calls and responses to queries. A few reps who had responded favorably were great to hear from, and I was weighing some choices, but Kathy lost her shit when she got back to me. I didn’t sign with her because of that necessarily, but because when she talked to me about it, she just *got* the script, down to its details, and what it was doing and why it was doing it. I was sold from that moment on. She wanted me because she believed in me, and I wanted her because I believed in her. It’s been that way since. A second script she took out to a few select reps was one she also believes in very strongly, but it’s a very weird script with, like, six different genres and is not an easy sell by any means. MERCIFUL, again, is the same story, and it has only reinforced my satisfaction with our relationship so far. I feel the difference with her — I feel believed in. And I see and feel her dedication still, and it’s only grown in strength, even though, if one looks at finances, only 1 deal has been signed thus far, and from that only an option check distributed while financing is raised. Had I been with [REDACTED], I would have been thrown away as trash long ago because I didn’t make this person a quick buck right off the bat. The difference to me is immediately apparent and reinforces my preference all the more.

Of course, I’m assuming you wouldn’t post on the blog a direct quote from me saying out loud that [REDACTED] is a trashy fuckstick, because I’m not so retarded as to want to fire cannons directly at someone like that. Who do you think I am? John Gary?

John Gary:

I'm not going to answer the actual question - I'm going to answer the question behind the question, which is really "Hey who should I have represent me? Should I sign with a big manager or a small one? A big agency or a small one?" The answer is "I don't know, do you want me to pick what you should have for breakfast, too?"

These kinds of questions are what I like to call "role playing game" questions - they're questions that ignore the realities of the business and what happens when you go looking for a rep and what it's like to actually have one.

The fiction here is the notion that you can choose between a big manager or a medium one, a big agent or a small one. I've had this same discussion with different writers for 15 years. It used to be fun to talk through "Oh well I'd totally choose the small agency over the big one!" but when push comes to shove, it's about who you sit down with, what they say, what they offer, and the other connections the reps have.

Until you are in that room sitting across from the rep wanting you to be a client, this is a useless conversation. Send your material to anyone who will read it. The material will make the decision for you.

Rep Relationships: outsourced post #1

A while back, Paul asked a question that I and other repped writers get a lot. My experience is limited, and the truth is that every writer’s relationship with his or her rep is a different animal, so I decided that instead of answering the question myself, I’d farm it out to several writers I know and ask if they had any advice for Paul. I got some great responses. I intended to put them together much sooner, but I got a little side tracked on account of writing a new screenplay.

So here is Paul’s original question:

Is it true that managers and agents will only do something for you twice---after you give them the first spec they like and if that doesn't sell then if you are generating income for them----otherwise they won't do anything for you because they have 35 plus other clients (managers) or (70-80 for agents)... Would a new writer get lost in the shuffle at a big management company like Anonymous Content or Benderspink if they aren't hot right away...or is it better to go with a medium manager who's a hot spec seller.... How do you figure out which managers will take time to develop material and build a new client's career from ones that are strictly going for the one off quick deal?

Writers tend to be verbose (and then apologize for being verbose) so I’ve got a lot of words. I decided to split the responses into three posts.
Today's responses come from two writers: Writer #1 is a writer who’s been in the game for a long time and makes a living at this, and the second is a writer who’s just beginning her promising career.

Writer #1:

I have a manager and an agent. I’ve had both almost since the beginning and while the agents have changed many, many times, the manager has stayed the same since he became my manager.

The relationship with an agent or manager is going to depend entirely on the personality of the rep. I’ve had agents who are all business and distant whom I talked to once every two weeks (they never take your call—always call you back end of day between 6:00 and 7:00), and agents who take my call right away and whom I spoke to a couple times a week. But in either case, no agent is going to spend the time with you that a manager will. No agent is going to take a half hour on the phone to hear your list of ten things you want to accomplish. Or let you run a dozen ideas by them. They’re just too busy. So a manager will always have more time for you, and you should develop much more of a friendship with a manager. Or at least close to one.

Also, agents must be managed. Not necessarily by your manager, but by someone. That is, you can’t be negative all the time, complain about shit, and not deliver new material. At least not if you’re not A-list. Once you start making serious money, the relationship flips and they start managing you, but even a mid-six figure writer can be more trouble than they’re worth, so tread lightly. Thus, a conversation with one’s agent must always be short, positive, and focused. It’s a highly artificial relationship. You can’t call them up to talk about your depression. You can’t talk about six different things. And you can’t talk for forty minutes.

It’s a continuum, naturally. An agent at WME is going to tend to be less hands on than one at APA, but that’s not necessarily so. Again, it depends on the agent’s style. But it’s a mistake to think your agent is your friend. You’re in a business relationship and they will cut you if you don’t generate income but do generate headaches.

And to answer the question posed directly, there are no hard rules for who might drop you or after how many failures. Some agents may be in a volume business and cut clients all the time who don’t earn. Others, believe it or not, actually believe in their clients’ writing and will stay the course for years without income from you. But only if you’re pleasant, hard working, and keep delivering quality material. With the way the spec market is these days, it’s hard to expect a new writer to actually sell anything. But what about the follow up general meetings? Is he willing to collaborate on new ideas? Is he good in a room? Is the feedback good? These are reasons to keep a client who isn’t earning. Conversely, pain in the asses with multiple mental issues who write one spec a year are going to get cut.

Writer #2:

The story and idea of reps is a lot more complicated and harder that it seems sometimes. I know a lot more writers who are unhappy with their reps than ones who are completely happy. I also know a few that are happy with their manager but not agent, and vice versa, it happens a lot. Maybe many writers won't admit to their rep troubles because it's kind of like a marriage. You are all smiles even when things are rocky, and when things are bad you aren't running around telling all your friends that it's terrible and sucks -- you just keep smiling sometimes so nobody knows what you're dealing with but deep down you know it shouldn't be this way, or there is better out there.

As for me, I firmly believe you HAVE to find someone you click with and is passionate about you and your work. Here's the thing you should know when you get signed -- you constantly have to prove yourself -- I don't think that changes for those even making money. You are only as good as your material and if you're not producing the goods then you aren't doing your job as a writer, and reps can't do anything for you. They only make 10-15% because they should only be doing 10-15% of the workload -- that's where my first manager came in...

Let me give you an idea of my specific situation so you can maybe relate to a portion or maybe all of it. When I signed with my first manager at a very very reputable management company, I was the ripe old age of 21... Insane, right? I was so green and thought I had it made on those one or two scripts. But here's the reality of what I did in two years: I didn't write a lot, the ideas I sent weren't good, I emailed a lot about nothing, and spent my time dreaming of dollars that would never come... Don't be that person. That is when you see managers not sending out your stuff, not emailing on your every whim, or calling you weekly. You have to remember it's their reputation on the line in a town where opinion is everything. Why would they send out something subpar? They shouldn't have to. I interned at a production company for a summer and it opened my eyes to the other side from submissions, phone calls to talk clients up, coverage, etc. A rep can certainly be "that" guy or girl who sends over junk all the time. The execs begin to take them less seriously as opposed to those they know ONLY send amazing samples... Anyways, that's another lesson, but ultimately it wasn't a fit anyways with that manager, but I certainly learned what not to do the next time around.

I firmly believe it's the agent, not the agency -- find someone who gets you. Sure the big three agencies have a lot of resources, big teams, big actors, but if you can't get an agent working for you there then it's just a name to throw around and it's all for nothing.

Long story short, I was largely ignored for my two and a half year stint with [my rep]. Sure when I emailed or called, I'd get responses, but I wanted to know if my stuff was being sent out, was it read, what did that person think? I will say I got a fair amount of attention my last few months with him, but I had to be vetted by other people in the industry or his other big clients before he would put in some time due to his other 100 clients -- and truth be told, I felt extremely under serviced. I didn't know at the time if I was being a whiny girl or if it was justified. I look back now and think it was justified, but I saw so many writer friends go through the same thing, the same frustrations, the same shit. It was either their reps don't respond, their reps don't read in a timely manner, their reps are cold on their material, their reps are giving bad advice, their reps ignore them, the list goes on -- frankly it sucks ass sometimes.

So as you can see it's tough to blanket every situation. I've seen writers screw up a good thing with good reps whether they don't write anything worth a damn, they don't write at all, they pester their reps, etc. I've seen great writers with the wrong reps. They could easily be going on tons of meetings, maybe getting jobs, but their rep is so high profile, has too many clients, doesn't care, or are too busy servicing their big money makers. Then I've seen writers go through reps like toilet paper... whose fault it is doesn't really matter, it's like dating, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. Staying in it just for the sake of having a rep isn't what someone should be doing. When I left my manager I had no new material so the next year I sat down and wrote... and in that year I wrote something that would get me my next set of managers….

 I didn't want to leave a rep again because it's like breaking up, it's not fun. So I had my bullshit meter on super sensitive when I went on these meetings. I didn't want smoke blown up my ass, I didn't want the dog and pony show, I wanted to have someone I believed could love me as a writer. So when managers started talking about "this pilot" and how great it was and what they could do, I started to fade because I am more than this one thing I wrote that you loved, I have so much more to say about so many things that you don't even know about yet. But when I met with my current managers (which at the time there were four of them, that was a big change on its own going from one to four), I immediately noticed they didn't lead with fireworks. They hardly even talked about my pilot. Instead we talked about our backgrounds, life, dogs, cars, everything under the sun -- that told me right there they were interested in me as a person and as a writer... I was sold. I signed with them March 2012 so it's still relatively new, but it's been great.


PART 2 IS HERE. 
PART 3 IS HERE.

A few general thoughts on reps

Having a rep is amazing, but as I learned last time I had a manager, it does not guarantee any kind of success. Their job is to give you opportunities. Your job is to make the most of those opportunities.

Reps sign you on because they think you can make them money. They can get your career going. The few I've dealt with have struck me as people who love getting excited about working with someone they believe has talent, and that excitement is contagious. Your job, as an unrepped writer, is to get that excitement going over you.

But there are different kinds of reps. If you don't know about hip pocketing, that's when the rep doesn't do any work on your behalf, but if you need someone to submit for you, they'll do it. So let's say you're at a party and you meet a studio exec. You pitch him an idea, he likes it, tells your rep to send it over. That's when you call your hip pocketing agent to send that requested script over. And maybe if he likes you enough, or if you show signs of promise, he'll decide to fully represent you.

Any "agent" or "manager" who wants money up front is a fraud. Period. I don't care how much they gush over you. They are full of shit and you shouldn't do business with them.

There are plenty of stories of reps who sign a writer then forget about them. It happens quite a lot, actually. But as a very successful A-lister once told me, a rep who never calls is not a rep. If you end up with a rep who hasn't contacted you in months, break it off. They're not interested in you. Remember the excitement the like to feel? As soon as they lose that sense of excitement, you've lost them.

But it's not the end of the world if you have to fire a rep, even if you have to go back to being without one for a while. Sometimes it's not a good fit. I know plenty of successful writers who've been through three or four reps until they found the right one, and I know successful writers who stuck with the first one they landed. It's different for everybody.

But the important thing is, no matter who is representing you, keep working. Bust your ass, do what they say, and maybe you can keep that excitement going. That's where I am now: busting my ass to take advantage of the opportunities I'm being given.