I know you've seen the posters for Tropic Thunder. And like me, you've probably done a double take when you saw "Downey Jr" over what is clearly the face of a black man. And yes, that is him, and yes, he's in black face.
Ben Stiller has big brass cojones and so does the studio because Christ, blackface? In 2008?
But then I thought about Soul Man and White Chicks and I looked up some info on the movie, and here's the thing: He's not playing a black man.
White Chicks may be stupid because they look neither white nor like chicks, but it's not horribly offensive either because the Wayans aren't actually portraying white women; they're portraying what two black men THINK white women act like.
And Soul Man is about a white guy who learns that his preconceived notions about black people may not have been so spot on when he decided to become one - not about a white actor pretending to be a black man.
And I think in the end that's the difference. Downey's character is a white actor who is cast in a role that was written for a black man so he decides to go all the way into character by dyeing his skin and hair and pretending to be black. He's NOT pretending to actually be black.
Blackface was offensive because it was white people pretending to be black and encouraging stereotypes as if they were real characteristics of black Americans. I think if it's a white man pretending to be a white man who's pretending to be a black man, that's not the same thing.
So at first when I saw that billboard with Downey in blackface I was like Whaaaaaaaaaaaa? But then I realized it's probably gonna be okay.
Still. Damn, Dreamworks. Balls.
Except overall the movie, with all apologies to K-9s, is a dog.
ReplyDeleteThat's now what I hear. The few people I know that have seen it say it's great.
ReplyDeleteThe billing makes it even better.
ReplyDeleteSTILLER BLACK DOWNEY JR.
Rock on Black Downey Jr.
In a local theater they have the single one-sheets side by side. Just two of them. Jack Black. And Robert Downey Jr.
So these also read BLACK DOWNEY JR.
I think it's hilarious.
"Blackface was offensive because it was white people pretending to be black and encouraging sterotypes as if they were real characteristics of black Americans."
ReplyDeleteBlackface was never offensive. And never will be.
There are those in the media who don't have any real news to tell...so they look around for stuff,
but trust me honey...Blackface aint offending nobody.
Not Black People. And that's for sure.
Maybe someone of anothercolorface, who is ashamed...or something. But, not anyone who is "truly" a black man...not really.
Now as for whether DreamWorks has Balls? I beg to differ.
Is that satirical? Because blackface has offended plenty in its day. Plenty of black Americans especially.
ReplyDeleteI know alternate history is cool and all, but the existence of a minstrel show where white people dress up like black people with clown lips and jet black skin and pretend to eat watermelon and talk like idiots in a time when blacks are only allowed to ride at the back of the bus? If it doesn't offend you, it should.
I have really got to get back to work...but you know me, I must comment here.
ReplyDeleteFirst I want to say that I really enjoy your blog...so I sincerely hope that "to differ" is allowed here.
That said, NO
Black people weren't offended by that garbage. Nor should we have been.
To be honest *white people* should be offended...or indeed ashamed. I know I would be. If a man of mine was dressing up, putting on makeup, looking and talking stupid...well let's just say I wouldn't even let that sucker sleep on the couch.
But Black People. My People. My People.
In spite of it all...
-being kept away from the written word
In spite of it all...
-being separated from our heritage
In spite of it ALL...
Barrack Obama is a Candidate for the President of the United States!
Nope sorry "no weapon formed against us shall prosper..."
...we're not offended. By no means.
Morgan Elizabeth McKinnon
Oh yeah,
ReplyDeleteA real real funny story about "the back of the bus."
I've been riding the bus for ages. With the road rage...I'm just too old for that.
And now with the gas prices...I'm just too old for that.
Anyhow, I'm on the bus, and it's packed these days. And this white woman gets on the bus, with all of these black folks...and the only place she could sit, was a seat on the very back.
That just struck me as funny...and not funny ha ha!
Of course you're allowed to disagree.
ReplyDeleteBut I gotta say in return that YOU may not be offended by blackface but to say that no black American is - sorry, that's just wrong. Blackface was an insulting sterotype and many black Americans see it as such.
Hey Ems, who are you to speak for black people? Nothing worse than a politically correct/guilty/confused white woman to do that.
ReplyDeletePeople who get all bent out of shape over race are racists. The rest of us are too busy making our way in the world to see color. The way Martin wanted us to be.
Oh I didn't realize only black people were allowed to talk about racism.
ReplyDeleteI'm not speaking for black people. I'm talking about the essays, speeches, articles and the film Spike Lee wrote about blackface and how offensive it is to black Americans.
There are people who use racism as a crutch. There also used to be this thing called racism that actually did indeed happen in America. Are you one of the people who thinks we shouldn't study slavery because it makes us uncomfortable?
And even my best friends don't call me "Ems." People who don't leave their names on combative comments DEFINITELY don't get to give me a nickname. If you want to argue, have the balls to give yourself a name, you pussy.
And also Morgan I ignored the rest of your post earlier, but you're totally right about Barack Obama. I love what his candidacy means about how far we've come as a nation.
ReplyDelete"Hey Ems, who are you to speak for black people? Nothing worse than a politically correct/guilty/confused white woman to do that.
ReplyDeletePeople who get all bent out of shape over race are racists. The rest of us are too busy making our way in the world to see color. The way Martin wanted us to be."
Truly one of the most idiotic things I've read in quite some time. And I frequent IMDB message boards, so you had competition, anonymous.
By the way, are you saying that somebody like Spike Lee, and Jesse Jackson (perhaps bad timing), and Al Sharpton are all racists? Because they are permanently bent out of shape over race.
And emILYs response was just perfect. Have some balls, leave a name. Back your shit up.
Blackface, to anybody that has actually done some research, is widely considered to be offensive and shameful. I can't say that I give a fuck that two people that think they speak for all people say it's not offensive. Doesn't sway me.
Read a book.
Anonymous, grow a pair.
"By the way, are you saying that somebody like Spike Lee, and Jesse Jackson (perhaps bad timing), and Al Sharpton are all racists? Because they are permanently bent out of shape over race."
ReplyDeleteLEE, JACKSON, and SHARPTON do not have a monopoly on the opinions of the Black Race.
You need to get out more Matt…(“soul mate“.)
"Blackface, to anybody that has actually done some research, is widely considered to be offensive and shameful."
Where the hell are you doing your research?
I spoke to my daughter, who has a teenage daughter…neither of them gives a fuck about blackface. They’re most certainly not offended. The teen was like:
“may I get back to my choreography now.”
Look, I suppose at one time there were those who *were* offended. However, from my “research” I found that the folks who were offended concerning blackface...are long dead.
Now granted there are probably some still screaming from the hole…they just haven’t taken the time to put the dirt in their faces.
"Anonymous, grow a pair."
I think it’s totally unfair to insist that Anonymous grow some balls…when the comments are being moderated. (IMHO)
Morgan Elizabeth McKinnon
Comment moderation simply means I either delete your comment or I don't. The only comments I delete are generally vicious personal attacks on me or someone else here, or made out of complete ignorance. I don't delete very often. I didn't used to use moderation until I was harassed by some Anonymous jerk who kept posting comments about what a horrible person I am. It's easy to be a jerk when you don't have to leave your name.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think perhaps we are on two different pages here. You're saying people who were born recently aren't offended by blackface. Well of course they're not, they didn't grow up under segregation. But older black Americans remember that shit and they do not appreciate it.
And if Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don't speak for the black race, neither do you. Certainly neither do I. But there are plenty of black Americans who still do find the practice offensive. Not everybody born in the '40s is dead.
That said, I respect you and I'm glad you like my blog. But I disagree with you on this one.
"LEE, JACKSON, and SHARPTON do not have a monopoly on the opinions of the Black Race.
ReplyDeleteYou need to get out more Matt…(“soul mate“.)"
I get out plenty. And the Lee, Jackson, Sharpton comment had nothing to do with you, it was directed toward Anonymous. I never said they have a monopoly on the opinions of the black race. If you can find where I wrote something different, please let me know.
And I never said that a 14 year old kid was offended by blackface. Or even a 35 year old. Most people these days aren't really aware of blackface, and what it meant at the time.
So that point of view is rather silly.
"Blackface is('nt) back...Blackface is dead!"
ReplyDelete"But older black Americans remember that shit and they do not appreciate it."
(Older Black American?) That would be me, and quite frankly my dear scarlett...(well you know).
"And if Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don't speak for the black race, neither do you. Certainly neither do I."
My point is...even if they have concerns about blackface (which I'm sure they don't at this stage of the game) then those opinions are NOT the opinions of the entire Black race.
Seriously. Nobody really gives a damn.
"Not everybody born in the '40s is dead."
No...but "caring" opinions about blackface are.
"That said, I respect you and I'm glad you like my blog. But I disagree with you on this one."
I'm trying to understand why this dead issue is so important to a white girl (with all due respect.)
I'm white so I shouldn't care about racism?
ReplyDeleteI'm a writer. This post was about what is and is not appropriate in writing a film. And I decided that it WAS, in fact, appropriate.
But more than that, I'm also a member of the human race and an American. So yeah, despite the fact that I have white skin, I still give a rat's ass about racism.
Emily,
ReplyDeleteWhite people are only allowed to care about white people. Black people only care about black people. Asian care only about Asians. And on and on it goes.
Don't you see, the only way we can bring the races together is if we all stay as far apart as possible.
Morgan, still waiting for you to show me where I said the three black men in question speak for the entire black race.
Or for you to admit that that's not what I said.
Emily Blake said...
ReplyDeleteI'm white so I shouldn't care about racism?
Nope this is (EXACTLY) what Morgan McKinnon said...
I'm trying to understand why this dead issue is so important to a white girl (with all due respect.)
It just appears that you are trying to raise the dead...my wonder is WHY?
Certainly it is admirable that you concern yourself with racism. I think it appropriate that you do. I simply find it strange that you would take the time to try to dig up the bones of a blackface.
That's it.
"By the way, are you saying that somebody like Spike Lee, and Jesse Jackson (perhaps bad timing), and Al Sharpton are all racists? Because they are permanently bent out of shape over race."
ReplyDeleteThat's a duck if I ever saw one Matt.
"Don't you see, the only way we can bring the races together is if we all stay as far apart as possible."
Your sarcasm reeks the truth (ie, absence makes the heart grow fonder.)
Go back and read the original post. The new movie which has not even come out yet features a character in blackface and I was examining whether or not that should be seen as offensive. So I wrote a post about it in which I decided that I don't think it was offensive because of the way it's presented.
ReplyDeleteWhy do I care? Why do I care about anything? I was curious and I was thinking about the topic, so I wrote a post about it.
I care about lots of things that don't directly involve me.
"So I wrote a post about it in which I decided that I don't think it was offensive because of the way it's presented."
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying that Black people should be offended about an old dead offense that was dug up and presented unoffensively in a movie?
I think we have a point here that does not deserve the time we have given to it.
Hey E-m-i-l-y. I apologize if I offended you with my comment or calling you Ems, yesterday, though I am glad that such things would be considered a "problem" by you, because that means your life is pretty good.
ReplyDeleteTruth be told, racism is a sore spot for me. I know it still exists, especially in certain parts of the country, world for that matter. I think we're in a weird stage right now, where we are a generation or two away from being free of slavery/racism, though just like any horrible atrocity, it must be remembered. Not that racism -- or any numerous other "isms" -- won't always exist or even dominate society the way slavery and racism against black people did.
What agitates me -- right or wrong -- is when I hear people so quick to find racism in anything. I know your post was about blackface -- so it related to what you were saying -- and I apologized already. But lots of times I see white people so eager to jump on the "save the poor minority" bandwagon even before they know if the minority is even offended. And just because someone is offended, and they happen to be black, that does not necessarily mean they were a victim of racism. My point is, when something happens, the media is quick to examine/search for/sometimes create a racist element, that might not exist. If two white guys or two black guys beat the hell out of each other, that's the story. But if one guy was white and one was black, well, there must have been racism going on.
I long for the days MLK spoke of, when color won't matter, when we can all just be Americans.
I realize I've extrapolated quite a bit from what you were talking about, and in such a short(long for this forum, I know) statement, some of what I said may come across as abrupt, but I just wanted to let you know where I was coming from.
I'm still going to post this as anonymous, though we'll all still know I'm a pussy(I liked that:-)). Just as you have had trouble with people in the past(though I wasn't coming from that place), I've found that leaving your name in the comments around the scribosphere can get you unwanted stress as well.
Fair enough, Anonymous. I usually assume that if someone's anonymous it's because he's being a dick. But you explained yourself pretty reasonably. I forgive you. Carry on.
ReplyDeleteAnd Morgan, this is a blog where I discuss things I'm thinking about. I saw a billboard that made me think about the racist history of blackface and wonder how it applies to modern film so I wrote a post about it.
Yes, blackface is an old wound, that's why it makes some people uncomfortable. Know what else is? Slavery. Think we should outlaw discussions of slavery because it's old and an uncomfortable topic?
"That's a duck if I ever saw one Matt. "
ReplyDeleteI know you're a chick, but grow a metaphorical pair. You're ducking what you accused me of. Either back up what you said, or admit you spoke before thinking and you were wrong.
And I just love it when black people think they get to decide what is okay for them, and what is okay for everybody else.
They get to make jokes about other races (mainly white and asian) but a white comic or white public figure can't make a joke about them.
They get to use the very ugly word n--ger, but anybody else that uses it is automatically a racist.
And they get to decide, and very oddly I might add, what topics from the past are okay to discuss. Slavery is okay, blackface is a dead issue. Good to know, thanks for letting the rest of us in on this decision.
They also get to decide which races get to discuss which issues.
Hell, I'll probably be accused of being racist simply because I'm critical of a few black people. Although if people knew my background they'd steer clear of that accusation.
Sorry for getting all racial, this only applies to a very small percentage of the African American population. But it applies to two people on this thread of comments.
By the way, Morgan, the following is a duck if I ever saw one.
You said:
"Blackface was never offensive. And never will be."
"Black people weren't offended by that garbage. "
"Look, I suppose at one time there were those who *were* offended. However, from my “research” I found that the folks who were offended concerning blackface...are long dead."
Same girl. Differing opinions. That sometimes happens when you don't have a clear grasp of an issue, and are only trying to start some shit.
I have had some helluva personal battles to fight in the last few hours. I'm winning, of course, but it's still kicking my ass.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I don't have a lot of fight left...right at the moment.
"They get to use the ugly n--ger word..."
Let me just say this on that...
just as blackface doesn't offend me now...the N word wouldn't have offended me then.
Matt, if you want to use the N word, go ahead...knock yourself out.
I never said it made me uncomfortable to discuss blackface(damn, I'm warming the fuck up) I simply said I didn't give a fuck. And many of my brothers and sisters feel the same.
If you want to discuss it...knock yourself out.
Fact is, I watched the trailer with Downey, Jr...and he wasn't in blackface. He was wearing great makeup...not some charcoal smut.
In fact, he doesn't make a bad looking black man...for a white man.
I've got so much more, but Matt, Emily, et al...
I'll be back
Morgan
Also Matt...I didn't start this shit. It's all Emily.
Yes, I certainly did start it. On my blog. Where I talk about stuff. Every day.
ReplyDeleteYou came here, you commented on it and that's fine. But to say you don't care - well you sure are spending a lot of your time and energy convincing everybody that you don't care. You even went to far as to ask more than once why I decided to post about it. I post about a lot of things but you've never gotten so worked up over them before.
Robert Downey Jr is made up to look like a black man in the film. So I thought to myself, how does that compare to blackface? And is that okay in this day and age? And I set out to think up an answer. On my blog. Where I post about stuff every day.
Your response to that post was to tell me that "Blackface was never offensive. And never will be."
And it doesn't take long to find evidence to disagree with that statement of yours. You don't find blackface offensive - okay, cool. But that's not what you said. "Blackface ain't offending nobody."
I'm sorry about your personal battles and good luck with that, but I'm still going to disagree with you that no black people find blackface offensive.
Seriously.
ReplyDeleteThis has gotten like...funny!
And as I laugh, it occurs to me that white people like to put paint on their faces (all colors) and yell and scream and ...have food fights.
It's not about blackface...they just like to paint their faces.
I aint mad at 'em (or you.)
Anyhow, it's off to work for me. It's been real Emily...
Morgan
Well not quite...waiting for my ride.
ReplyDeleteWhile waiting I traveled the web...
check out "THE VIEW" with Whoopi and Elizabeth...getting emotional about the N word. (7/17)
Sadly, watching The View is against my religion.
ReplyDeleteBut I do watch The Soup and Best Week Ever so they'll probably cover it. It sounds exciting.
ha ha
ReplyDeleteNow that's funny.
What is your religion?
No let's finish the
"blackface/slavery/N word..."
then we'll go God!
ah! There's my honk...ride's here!
Bye!
Thank you Emily!
ReplyDeleteBlackface is ALWAYS racist, this film is trying to make racist blackface normal again.
Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. Buddha
ReplyDeletePainting your face and spouting stupidity in order to try to hurt another human being does only one thing; it plants a life-size mirror at your front door, so each time you exit to start your day you get to see…STUPID! Morgan
I’ve asked around…
MM
Sir Do you think blackface is racist? Yes or No.
SIR
It depends.
MM
Yes or No sir.
SIR
No. I think it's just stupid.
That’s what I’ve been getting.
But answer me this Emily, or just anybody who has the time…how is blackface racist?
Also, isn't there a difference in the type of make-up in the blackface of old (that some it seems would like to embrace once more) and the make-up in TROPIC THUNDER?
I've answered this question several times over and I'm on to something else now.
ReplyDelete"I've answered this question several times over and I'm on to something else now."
ReplyDeleteWhew! Fabulous!
I guess I just assumed since you moderated then posted anonymous' comment...that blackface returns.
But hey. Delighted! Simply delighted.
I posted your comment as well. I'm not going to delete a comment simply because it's an old discussion, but you and I are not going to agree and we just keep going around in circles so I see no point in arguing with you anymore. You have your view and I have mine and we can disagree because we live in a world where that's allowed.
ReplyDelete