Okay this post is going to be a little negative. I don't like being negative but sometimes, dammit, it has to be done.
The other day this dude posted on Wordplayer asking for a way to guarantee his masterpiece will sell. "How do I get my script in front of readers?" he asked.
Everybody answered him, a couple with really eloquent posts, about how you need to write a great script and meet people and enter contests and
learn the ropes and that there is no easy answer. And the guy kept coming back with the statement that these suggestions gave an "unknowable" outcome.
Well, yeah. This isn't physics, dude. It's art. And art is subjective and competitive and indeed unknowable.
As proof, I offer the movie Torque which is playing on my TV right now. This movie is awful but a lot of people put a lot of time and money in it. The reason why is completely unknowable. So why the hell am I subjecting myself to this piece of crap on a motorcycle? I'm about to go to bed so I don't want to invest my time in something I care about, and this movie has completely ridiculous explosions.
OMG! They just drove their motorcycles so fast they merged into a video game! That bullet just set fire to his leaky sesium fuel deposit or some shit!
This movie is retarded. Unless any of the people involved in making that film should happen to read this blog someday, in which case I find it a thought-provoking piece of excellence in cinema, sirs.
But I digress.
This guy on Wordplayer kept coming back with the same comment about how he needed to know what method to take to get his script in front of the reader. He rejected anything that wasn't a logical, mathematical formula for how to become a screenwriter.
Every year people move to LA and give themselves a year to find a job as a professional screenwriter. Don't do that. It will not happen in a year and most of the people who think it will end up giving up and going back to the familiar when they don't make their goal. Know why Diablo Cody is famous? Because nobody else has ever done what she did, so don't go thinking you'll be like her. If you are like her - AWESOME. You've beaten the odds.
I've been in LA 3 years. I have some contacts, I have a solid script and a bunch of not solid scripts, I have great friends. I know people who've been here for decades and have only scratched the surface of the industry. I know people who work as writers, but still have to struggle to find jobs every time they finish the last one.
So if you're one of those people who wants to move here and try it for a year, save your money. Write a bunch of scripts and then come here prepared to invest some time.
Most of you already know that way better than I do already so I'll finish up my point.
This guy insisted on an easy answer so I told him to get the Hollywood Creative Directory and query agents, which as you all know is 98% a waste of your time. But he thanked me and was so glad somebody finally answered his question so he could go on his merry, but not before asking me where to find the HCD because apparently he is unfamiliar with Google.
Now maybe he's just knew and eager and excited and scared and will figure it out the hard way. Sometimes new people don't want to hear the truth because the truth is depressing. But he'll either learn soon or hang on to his day job.
Don't be that guy.
Good new developments, everybody. Torque ended and now I'm watching Housesitter, which is a much better film. I would totally go shopping with Goldie Hawn. She makes up for the lack of explosions.
Hello Emily,
ReplyDeleteAlright…this is one of those times when I absolutely DO NOT agree with you.
“Know why Diablo Cody is famous? Because nobody else has ever done what she did, so don't go thinking you'll be like her. If you are like her - AWESOME. You've beaten the odds.”
First of all, many new writers (myself included) don’t want to be famous. We have no intentions of ever moving to that GOD FORSAKEN LA (sorry that you live there and like it.)
Consider this: don’t you think that it is about time that BRILLIANCE stood up and stop letting mediocre warm over bulls*** reign? (ie, Indy 5...from what I hear. I haven’t seen it.) But…??????
I have learned (not everything. By no means.) how to write a screenplay by hanging around websites and blogs such as yours…for a while.
How do I know that my screenplay is going to make that breakthrough?
I’ll tell you:)
Because.
He's what I would call of the Lottery winner school of screenwriting. Poeple think this is an easy way to get a fat check.
ReplyDeleteNOT!
You'd be better off working as crew, as you will work more than most writers and still make movies.
The 95 Percent Rule shows up everywhere.
ReplyDelete(You know-- "95% of everything is crap...")
Let's apply the rule to this newbie:
-- 95% of the newbs have no hope at all
-- 95% of the supposed wannabees do not in fact have any serious desire to become writers. Rather, they like the idea of making a lot of money for sitting on their cans spewing nonsense (like this!) into the void, and they do not want to have that happy fantasy disturbed by anyone or thing suggesting that the job might be more like, ya know, A JOB
-- 95% of whatever he writes will be garbage
-- 95% of the advice he gets will be crap
-- 95% of his implementation of any such advice will in turn also be crap
-- 95% of what we think is useful as a possible response is in fact dog poo
-- 95% of the comments you draw in response to the discussion of this situation will also be verbal manure (like this one)
And so it goes.
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B
First Anonymous, you have absolutely the right attitude. I wasn't suggesting that it was a lost cause - I wouldn't be here if I did. I mean that you have to be in it for the long haul to make this work. Anyone who thinks they can come up with some kind of winning formula for success is kidding himself.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you'll be fine.
I apologize for such a lengthy tale. But this is for Brett. And those of the same mindset.
ReplyDeletePlease DO NOT skim through this comment. I would hate for you to miss any one word...and thus misinterpet.
***
PAST
It was on March 30, 1958, that a group of black performers calling themselves Alvin Ailey and Dancers took the stage together for the first time, in a performance at the 92nd Street Y. The response to Ailey’s “Blues Suite,” an instant classic, was frenetic. The 13 dancers, all friends from Broadway shows and the scrabbling modern-dance scene, were unpaid and exhausted. But looking back, many said, they had a sense that something important had happened.
“Everything had connected so beautifully, like a well-fit glove,” Claude Thompson, one of the dancers, recalled many years later. “I knew then that I was an artist.”
PRESENT
So You Think You Can Dance.
Open auditions for Season 3 began early March 2007, held in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Atlanta. Like the previous season, those that made the cuts moved on to Las Vegas. The taped auditions premiered on the Fox Network in the United States on May 24, 2007, and the subsequent shows were taped and broadcast live for a 12-week season. Cat Deeley returned as host, and Nigel Lythgoe returned as permanent judge. Joining Lythgoe permanently at the judging table was Mary Murphy; her promotion was reported by TV Guide on March 8, 2007. The prize for the winner was increased to $250,000 cash. On the performance finale show (August 16, 2007), it was announced that the series had been picked up for a 4th season. Sabra Johnson was named "America's Favorite Dancer," while Danny Tidwell was named as the runner-up.
(end)
***
My point?
I would venture to guess that MOST of the dancers who were a part of ALVIN AILEY and DANCERS (1958)…never earned $250,000 in their lifetime (as dancers.)
What they *did* do?
They paved the way for 19 year old Sabra Johnson (who had only 4 years of dance). And now …well, my goodness! Look at what has happened with DANCE. The movies. The commercials. People are working. Dancers are dancing.
All because (among many other things) this happened…
"In 1958, 13 dancers, all friends from Broadway shows and the scrabbling modern-dance scene, were unpaid and exhausted. But looking back, many said, they had a sense that something important had happened."
To continue my point,
I run around all over this internet…searching for answers. And learning how to write. How to write a script that will be compelling and entertaining and structurally sound.
(I DIGRESS...)
I do that Brett, not only because I love to write...but because I've been gifted with a lot of stories to tell. I'm just trying like hell to learn how to tell them.
This is not a get rich quick scheme for me. This is something that I have to do with my life.
And yes Emily, I am in for the long-haul. How can I not be?
I’m learning from what I consider the best. Learning from *those who have given blood, sweat, and tears. Those who've written scores of scripts. And received as many letters of rejection*.
Finally,
I believe it is time out for believing that it should take moving a mountain in order to get your scripts read and produced.
I believe that the mountain…has already been moved. I believe that the way…has already been pave.*(by those writers)*
Why else would JUNO win an Academy Award?
"Why else would JUNO win an Academy Award?"
ReplyDeleteI realize it was a rhetorical question, but I have to answer. Juno won the Academy Award due to hype, and the fact that the cast and crew saved a horrendous script. Yes, a poor script saved by great direction, acting, music, and pacing.
While I agree it wasn't the best script out there this year, I don't think Juno was horrendous either. I still haven't seen the film, but the script genuinely made me laugh. I wouldn't have given it the Oscar, but it was miles above most people's first efforts and it deserved to get made.
ReplyDeleteBut Diablo Cody was a fluke. I worry that a lot of people saw what happened to her and said "Oh I can do that too!" when for every Diablo Cody there's eight thousand Joe Schmoes working their butts off for years before they see any results.
Ah, this Diablo hype and conflict!
ReplyDeleteWhat follows is only my opinion, no more or less.
LONGISH POST, warning.
Okay, Diablo and Juno.
You know, I remember a similar shitstorm happening 10 years ago, regarding a couple actors who wrote a script for themselves to star in, it became a huge hit and they won Oscars.
Everyone ran around saying they didn't really write it, it wasn't that good, etc.
Tell ya, though, I just rewatched GOOD WILL HUNTING and not only did I enjoy it muchly, not only is it well shot and well acted, the damn thing is well-writ, too.
Damn good script. Was it the best script that year? The other scripts nominated (for original) were DECONSTRUCTING HARRY, BOOGIE NIGHTS, THE FULL MONTY, and AS GOOD AS IT GETS.
All very good scripts (LA CONFIDENTIAL won best adaptation that year, one of my favorite scripts and films) and if BOOGIE NIGHTS had won, I may have been happier . . .
But in hindsight, I think GOOD WILL HUNTING was the best original script that year.
It's not without flaw, but few scripts are. What it was, was engaging, smart, funny and very moving. It's an awesome movie, much better than most, and that's because of the script (the character of Will was allegedly based on Affleck's father) which showed us unique characters who moved us.
And I'd say those two actor kids moved on and had themselves nice careers (and GONE BABY GONE was pretty damn good, I think) and are not lucky one shot wonders.
Which brings us to JUNO, which I just recently watched.
Loved it. I don't think it was my all out favorite movie of 07 (that would be ONCE) but it's definitely top tier, and definitely a great, funny script that makes it work.
There are lots of stories about pregnant teen mothers on TeeVee, and it's been done in film before (Molly Ringwald did one in 89, I think) and what makes this movie work is the script and the character of JUNO and the people of her world.
Yes, the director made smart choices and the film was smartly cast (JK Simmons rocks) but those smart choices worked because the script was smart and funny.
Just my opinion, mind you.
The other thing that amuses me is this idea that Diablo Cody appeared out of nowhere, wrote one script that magically got made. It wasn't quite like that.
Again, I remember the same thing with the GOOD WILL HUNTING BOYS, people acted like they appeared out of thin air and took kudos and awards away from those more deserving.
That wasn't necessarily true, both guys had worked in film for a number of years, and also worked with a number of influential writer / director artists like Richard Linklater and Kevin Smith.
They'd been on sets, they'd done big movies and small (Damon has one line in MYSTIC PIZZA in 89, and AFFLECK has one line as a basketball player in BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, the original film, not the series) and paid some dues.
Diablo Cody wrote a very funny blog about stripping that I used to read back in the day, used the attention from that to write a very funny book about the same, which in turn led to writing screenplays.
Many a fine writer used a great book as their entry into screenwriting (beginning but not ending with the great Bill Goldman) and in that, Diablo seems no different. She wrote well, folks dug it, she wrote a book people dug, someone asked her to write a screenplay and they dug that too.
And audiences liked it, judging from the box office.
Just my two cents.
Whew. I needed a good rant. Thanks.
Hey Joshua,
ReplyDeleteI’m so glad you brought up those guys (Ben & Matt). I love those guys. I am so inspired by them. I have a copy of their script at my desk.
Both guys are great actors. I follow them from way back.
I read their account of how they wrote GOOD WILL HUNTING. Faxing. Emails. Long Distant Phone Calls.
How they didn’t like flying, so they drove across country (or rather Ben did.)
Those guys had something. They had something back then that I believe is missing from most of the professional screenwriters today. They were hungry.
I think JUNO is an excellent script.
My question: “Why do you think JUNO won an Academy Award?“ wasn’t about putting her script down. NOT BY A LONG SHOT.
That question was about giving us HOPE. JUNO was about HOPE for us as writers. It’s not for us to look at her and try to slam her script and find the flaws. I look at Diablo and I say she’s a woman, and I’m a woman. She has to use the toilet. I have to use the toilet. She wrote an award winning screenplay. I can write an award winning screenplay.
Reading Diablo’s blog, I find her fascinating. I subscribe to her blog. She has an extraordinary thought process and hopefully she will write another script…right away.
She was also hungry.
I remember her speech. She said that she looked around in that Target store and decided that she was not going to hang out with that mentality all of her life (or something to that effect.)
I read an old post of a professional screenwriter. He said that before he moved to LA, his job was what fueled his fire to write the scripts that he wrote.
I’m saying a number of things…but most importantly I guess I’m saying, I’m hungry for this. I have a burning raging fire inside of me to tell these stories to get them out of me. I’m trying desperately to learn how to do that.
And I know I’m not the only one.
I suggest you go back and re-read my comment and this time pay special attention to the fact that at no point did I question YOUR intent and desire-- I said that 95% of the folks banging cymbals together clamoring for attention on the various
ReplyDelete"scriptwriting boards" have little sincere desire, little sincere talent, and little sincere hope of ever doing anything relevant and worthwhile
I don't know you, so if YOU know with unshakable uncertainty that you're not one of the 95% I was referring to, then you're almost halfway to having a real prayer.
That other half of the puzzle will be solved by learning your craft, listening to good advice, ignoring the bad advice, developing the insight to judge the difference), working your ass off and never giving up for one second.
Do that and then maybe you have a fighting chance.
And BTW, please fight the urge to ever again use "So You Think You Can Dance" as evidence of anything other than the stupefying dumpth and laziness of the American viewing public.
Godspeed, caveat emptor, bon chance, break a leg, etc etc etc.
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B
Although I have absolutely no intentions of trading barbs with you Brett…I will lay out this challenge.
ReplyDeleteTry being kind. It is an extraordinary feeling. It makes you all warm and tingly.
Try telling the next cashier who waits on you at the checkout to have a great day…and mean it.
If you are married or have a significant other, do something special for her or him…that requires the use of your hands, and a really sweet kiss on the lips.
Go to an auto show or to the mall and spend a few hours.
Go to the park. Sit on a bench. Eat a tuna sandwich. Feed the crumbs to the pigeons. Have a coke…and a smile.
If you are a writer…and I will assume that you are, write a poem…preferably a love poem.
Go see a movie…a romantic comedy. Go alone…in case you cry.
You sound like a wonderful person Brett. People just have to listen very closely.
AS FOR THE SCREENWRITERS’ ISSUE…
I believe that there is about to be a CHANGE (and this is not political.) I believe the tide is turning for “writers“…just as it did for “dancers”. That was my point. It wasn’t about the TV viewing audience…it was about the dancers who have “worked their butts off for years”…who are finally getting paid.
Just look at the places you see dancers? How many television programs showcase dancers? Dancers are successful and making a living doing all sorts of things that they weren’t doing before. Every recording artist is looking for dancers for their videos.
BRETT…???
What if there was a Reality TV show for writers? How awesome would that be?
What if it played out something like STEPPENWOLF?
You know what I mean? Say there are 20 contestants and they are given a certain amount of time and talent to write a script.
What if those writers had access to their websites and blogs for a limited time during the week to "story conference" with their community.
And say for the first weeks until perhaps the last 4 or 5 contestants…the scripts are simply read…Steppenwolf style.
Thereafter…well don’t expect me to think of everything.
BUT
Next thing you know writers could be hired to do sooooo much more than just write screenplays. We are writers. That means we write.
I like Good Will Hunting. I think those guys wrote a really great script. Of course it wasn't the best of the year, but hey, hype definitely counts for something.
ReplyDeleteI have nothing against Diablo personally, I just don't think she's that great a writer. Was the script really horrendous, maybe not. I just hated the dialogue. The story was okay, but the characters did buck tradition several times, so that's a good thing.
anonymous.
ReplyDeleteHere's a challenge. Put a name to your words. It doesn't even have to be your real name (Diablo's real name ain't Diablo Cody) but sooner or later you have to have the courage to own your words.
I'd suggest start now.
Matt.
There are people who say the same thing about Charlie Kaufmann, despite the fact he's been nominated three times for an Oscar and won once.
Despite the fact that his movies get made.
Some folks think he's bad, others just think he's "not that great".
Me, I think when you get to the point where almost anything you write gets made, actors are killing to work with you and folks are shoving awards in your hands, you've reached a level of your craft that, if not great, is at least pretty damn good.
Like her or not, that has to be respected.
Josh Friedman wrote about that here in the post HOLLYWOOD IDOL, I think - http://hucksblog.blogspot.com/
I happen to think she writes great dialogue, myself.
"Try being kind. It is an extraordinary feeling. It makes you all warm and tingly."
ReplyDelete???
You presume much but know little.
Again, best of luck, etc etc.
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B
MATT says:
ReplyDelete"I like Good Will Hunting. I think those guys wrote a really great script. Of course it wasn't the best of the year, but hey, hype definitely counts for something.
I have nothing against Diablo personally, I just don't think she's that great a writer. Was the script really horrendous, maybe not. I just hated the dialogue. The story was okay, but the characters did buck tradition several times, so that's a good thing." (end)
ACADEMY AWARD WINNER 1998...
"Good Will Hunting"
ACADEMY AWARD WINNER 2008...
"Juno"
THE MESSAGE: "There is no spoon."
What if Ben, Matt, and Diablo were just chosen?
I’m just trying to be a writer here…nothing more.
TITLE: Bitter-sweet
TITLE: Take the good with the bad
LOGLINE: What if after many *ten-year anniversaries* of seeing wannabe screenwriters actually winning ACADEMY AWARDS…a herd of writers from around the globe join forces, and begin building each other up and lending genuine support. And as a result…a bucket of popcorn is now $30.
Joshua,
ReplyDeleteI'm nowhere near ready to concede that if you can get a film made in Hollywood, that you must be pretty damn good. Nowhere near ready to admit that.
Again, she does some things well but her dialogue is simply horrendous. I watched part of Juno again the other night while my wife was watching it and I almost felt bad for Ellen Page. It seemed like she had to work twice as hard just to make her character the least bit believable.
With all due respect, Matt (and I mean that, most folk who say that do it right before they're about to engage in a major diss, but I'm truly saying this in all honesty, with respect) but my opinion is that if you think the dialogue in JUNO was not just bad but horrendous, you're really operating on a level I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to communicate with.
ReplyDeleteTruly. I have a nice rep as someone who does dialogue extremely well, for what it's worth, but in the end that doesn't matter . . . what matter is what plays, and JUNO played well, and a large part of the reason it played well (and got the Oscar nom for Page) was because of the uniqueness of the voices of the characters, who felt REAL and individualized.
I don't know what you're example of good dialogue is, but honestly if you think Cody's dialogue is horrendous, I don't know if I want to know. Wait, I don't.
Seriously.
Because while I can entertain that JUNO may not have worked as well for everyone as it did for the many who racked up its box office to over a hundred million, I get that folks will have different reactions to it, sure, but to baldly state her dialogue was horrendous is, to me, a sign of extreme tone-deafness.
In other words, you don't have to like it, there are successful movies I don't like, but I recognize the proper craftmanship within them when I see it . . . you don't like it, fine, but not to recognize how well it was done, even if it's not to your taste?
I think that's a mistake. Again, just my opinion, means no more or no less than yours, it's only what I believe based on what I've learned and experienced.
And to your other point, you don't have to concede anything . . . if you want to believe that great work has no corillary (I know I spelled that wrong, I'm moving fast) to being produced consistently (not just one or two, but a career) then again, I don't know what else we have to talk about.
Because HYPE is a factor, but it's not the largest factor. Craft matters more. You can fool the audiences for one or two films, but sooner or later they'll catch on and stop coming.
HYPE doesn't guarantee success. There are many films that had HYPE and failed miserably because they sucked, cinema history is littered with them, from CLEOPATRA up onto STEALTH . . .
And add to that, JUNO was a small picture with no big stars, it didn't have HYPE in the beginning, folks just went to see it and liked it and created their own hype (much like LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE a couple years earlier) . . .
the HYPE came later, after a lotta folks saw it and crowed about it. And with that hype, came folks who dissed it like GWH before it, because they always exist (and I myself, back in the day, dumped on GOOD WILL as well, because it was fashionable for young video clerks, which I was, to crap on successful mainstream movies featured on the cover of every fricking movie magazine on the newstand, I hated those guys because I wasn't them, which was my mistake, because they did a good job) and will always exist.
Okay, I'm ranting. I apologize.
But listen, you didn't like it, you thought the dialogue was horrendous, that's entirely your right to do so.
I simply and completely disagree.
I think you tried to insult me on the sly there, but I don't take it that way. I don't believe that just because a film resonates with a lot of people, it must be good. Titanic is the number one film of all time with the public, according to the box office. And I think it's a piece of crap, except for the special effects.
ReplyDeleteI like stylized dialogue. I love early Tarantino, and some others that are escaping me right now. Dialogue doesn't have to sound real for me to like it. My problem with the dialogue in Juno was that it sounded so unnatural that I felt it affected the actors ability to say it naturally. The dialogue doesn't need to sound natural, but the actor's should. It felt false. Sam Jackson has very stylized dialogue in Pulp Fiction, but never for one second does it sound unnatural coming out of his mouth. That's the difference.
"Honest to blog" will remain my single least favorite line of dialogue of the last ten years. There were many others. In retrospect, I think most of the worst dialogue was given to the Juno character herself. Maybe that's where you and I aren't really seeing things the same. I'd have to watch the film again, because I don't remember if the dialogue of the other characters (except for Juno's best friend, who should've been shot in act one) was all that bad.
"And to your other point, you don't have to concede anything . . . if you want to believe that great work has no corillary (I know I spelled that wrong, I'm moving fast) to being produced consistently (not just one or two, but a career) then again, I don't know what else we have to talk about. "
Four words. Michael Bay. Brett Ratner.
A few more words. I know those two guys aren't writers. But they produce crap, time and time again. They get produced because they have big opening weekends. They produce fluff, but not even good fluff. Hollywood is sometimes about quality, but mostly it's about money. If the next couple of Diablo Cody movies don't make a dime, the hype will vanish and possibly so will her career.
Fine, we can agree to disagree - you think the dialogue blew chunks, I'm happy to maintain the opposite . . . and yeah, Michael Bay and Brett Ratner are not writers, they are directors and there's a very different dynamic to a director's career - they don't count into our discussion - so bringing them up is a dodge.
ReplyDeleteBut no matter - I can't see us finding even the most remote common ground to go any further with this.
So best to you.
There is a world of common ground to go further…Matt. Joshua.
ReplyDeleteLook at these massive comments for goodness sakes. Yeah?
We have a heck of a lot in common. And no we won’t always agree.
That’s what making up is for.
I maintain, that JUNO was set upon us to make us say…”If Diablo Cody can do it, then I can certainly do it.” And then do it!
Let me just make this comment about JUNO
( I read it as we speak)
Diablo may not have it going on when it comes to dialogue
(on that we agree)
But she hits a homerun with description from FADE IN
***JUNO MacGUFF stands on a placid street in a nondescript
subdivision, facing the curb. It’s FALL. Juno is sixteen
years old, an artfully bedraggled burnout kid in a Catholic
school uniform. She winces and shields her eyes from the
glare of the sun. The object of her rapt attention is a
battered living room set, abandoned curbside by its former
owners. There is a fetid-looking leather recliner, a chromeedged
coffee table, and a tasteless latchhooked rug featuring
a roaring tiger.***